Leading the Field: The PhD in Social Work
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In this episode of the Connecting with Care podcast, we chat with Courtney Haworth, a PhD student at Baylor University, about her journey in social work education. Courtney shares her transition from biblical studies to social work, driven by a passion for social justice and addressing hunger and poverty. She discusses the unique structure of her PhD program, balancing academic life with family, and offers valuable advice for prospective doctoral students. Tune in for insights on personal growth and the intersection of faith and social work.
Transcript
SPEAKERS: Lillie Walker, Courtney Haworth
Lillie Walker
Welcome, to the Connecting with Care podcast. My name is Lillie Walker. What drives someone to pursue doctoral education in social work and step into the world of research, scholarship, and leadership? In this episode, we explore the motivations and milestones of a PhD student committed to advancing the field. Join us as we sit down with Courtney Haworth to hear her PhD journey. Hi, listeners! Thank you for, joining the podcast and listening in. I'm here with Courtney. She's a PhD student, and we’d just love to hear more from her about her experience and just going to ask her a few questions. So, Courtney, just to kind of kick us off, would you mind introducing yourself, and saying a little bit about how you got to Baylor and where you're from?
Courtney Haworth
Yeah. So, I'm Courtney Haworth. I'm originally from a small town called Chatham, Illinois. It's right outside of Springfield, Illinois, which is the state capital. I just finished my PhD coursework as of last night, so, I'm officially...
Lillie Walker
Congrats, wow!
Courtney Haworth
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So, I am a candidate, meaning I've defended my proposal, and can start working on my dissertation. And now that I've finished coursework, I can do that. So, I'm a PhD candidate in the School of Social Work. Yeah, sorry, what else was I supposed to answer there?
Lillie Walker
Oh, yeah, no worries. can you just tell us about kind of your academic career? Maybe what your undergrad was? How you...
Courtney Haworth
Yeah, okay, so undergrad, I went to a small, Christian school in Missouri, and I was a biblical studies major, actually. Then I came to Baylor, for the M. Div. / MSW dual degree. And so initially I was just going to, come to seminary and do the M. Div. and I had a few professors in undergrad who kind of encouraged, me to explore the possibility of also doing the MSW, and at the time, I did not know anything about social work. I did not know anything about MSWs or BSWs for that matter. I didn't know anything about, really, the profession as a whole. But I pursued it and applied and was accepted and that was what brought me to Baylor initially in 2016.
Lillie Walker
Yeah. Wow, that's great. And then could you get into a little bit of, like, what your research experience is and what you're focusing on?
Courtney Haworth
Yeah, so my, well, I currently, serve as a senior research associate. That's my day job, is senior research associate at the Baylor Collaborative on Hunger and Poverty. and so, we're an anti-hunger, anti-poverty organization housed within Baylor University. So, I have the unique opportunity to do research kind of daily for my job. But, within my dissertation work, my research really focuses on the intersection of faith, politics and food security. And so, kind of exploring, the overlap between, kind of, what people think about food insecurity and hunger based on their political or religious affiliations and beliefs, communities and things like that. And then also looking at the data specifically, of the overlap between certain religious affiliations with higher rates or lower rates of hunger and food security.
Lillie Walker
Wow, that's super interesting. Okay, thanks for sharing about that. I'm going to kind of switch gears and just get into some get to know you as a person type of questions. So, if you had to use one word to describe where you're living, what would that word be?
Courtney Haworth
Currently, the word would be snowy. We got 10 inches of snow last week, so it's still on the ground here.
Lillie Walker
Oh, my goodness, that's…We're in Texas, so it's like 50 and everyone's like, in their winter coats freaking out. All right, so if you had to say what your go-to drink order is at your favorite local coffee shop or tea houses, what would you say?
Courtney Haworth
So, I am not very loyal to any specific drink. I go with whatever the festive seasonal drink is. I was actually just in Waco this past weekend and when I went to Dichotomy I got the Grinch pistachio latte matcha thing they had. I like the fun seasonal drinks that are available.
Lillie Walker
Those are great. That is awesome. Okay, thanks for sharing about that. Let's get a little bit more
00:05:00
Lillie Walker
personal into your journey. I know you talked a little bit about it earlier of, you were originally coming for your M. Div. and then ended up kind of going the social work route. So, I'd love to hear more about that and more about what that brought, you to Baylor specifically.
Courtney Haworth
Yeah. so when I was an undergrad, as I mentioned, as a biblical studies major, I was looking at seminaries, and I actually, I did come from a Southern Baptist undergrad. And so a lot of my, a lot of the folks that I was graduating with were headed towards Southern Baptist seminaries. As a woman who was pursuing an M. Div., I was really looking for a school that was supportive of women in ministry, that was supportive of the calls of various people, regardless of gender. And so, I had a professor in undergrad who encouraged me to look at Truett Seminary, and I came down for a visit, almost exactly 10 years ago and just really had a wonderful experience with the professors, with the students I got to interact with. I loved that Baylor was, you know, a Christian university. So, this intersection of faith and higher education and how do we pursue this calling into the academic world but also engaging our faith in that. And then when I transitioned from Truett into the School of Social Work, just found an even deeper connection with that integration of faith and practice. And so obviously that's something that's really unique to Baylor, to Baylor’s School of Social Work is having that, that emphasis, that 10th Competency on the integration of faith and practice, that was something that really drew me in, and just realizing how in line my beliefs, from my faith perspective were with the profession of social work, the ethics of the profession, and kind of this fight for justice and bringing, bringing justice, in these systems and individuals, you know, on all levels. So, social work, I would say I kind of stumbled into social work and now I'm social work's biggest, biggest fan.
Lillie Walker
Yeah, that's beautifully said. If you had to say how you've grown personally and professionally through your time at the Garland School specifically, what would you say?
Courtney Haworth
Yeah, wow. I've grown a lot. I mean, when I came into the School of Social Work, like I said, I truly knew very little at the time. There was an Introduction to Social Work course that you took as an intensive before the actual semester started. And I was really fortunate to have Kerri Fisher as my professor for that course. And it was definitely like drinking from a fire hose, but, that course really opened my eyes to the history of social work, kind of the why behind social work, and even in that class is kind of when I started to begin to grow. I think that's where the seeds might be planted, if we're talking metaphorically. But thinking through, why this profession exists and why it continues to exist and why it thrives and why people want to be social workers at all levels of the profession. And so, coming in, I was really unsure what I wanted to do, unsure what I might do, after graduation and just really growing through the class discussions that we got to have during my MSW specifically and now in the PhD. I mean each week just getting to hear from my colleagues, from the professors, from guest lecturers or guest speakers who come in, and really growing in my understanding of how change happens and what role social workers can have in that change process. and then professionally also just kind of that natural growth, from I was a student, I'm a working professional, I'm obviously still a student, but in a different capacity as a PhD student versus when I was in my MSW.
Lillie Walker
Yeah. And to go off of what you said, I think we've talked to a lot of students and that's a lot of what they said is, not only are they learning how to make actionable change in the populations that we're serving, but it's really content that changes them personally as well. So yeah, I think that's a really great point. How has your time here shaped the way you see yourself and your career as a future social worker?
Courtney Haworth
Yeah, that's, that's a really good question. I will answer the second half first, actually. So, initially when I was an MSW student, I actually was a clinical social work student. So, I did the Clinical Specialization, and I did the Mental and Physical Health concentration at the time that was the option. And
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Courtney Haworth
so, my internships were very clinical. I did an internship in hospice, I did an internship in the ED at one of the hospitals in Waco. And I absolutely loved it, thought I was going to be a clinical social worker, was, you know, trained in EMDR, loved the one on one, you know, modalities that I got to use with individuals and clients. And then I graduated, graduated my MSW in 2020. So, we were the first cohort to be, you know, we left on spring break, we never came back and gathered together ever again as a MSW cohort. And so, that shifted my career trajectory as well. Just at the time, I, was very uncertain about what to do then in the clinical route and a research assistant job opened up and thankfully social work has so many transferable skills and a wide range of skills that are taught to the students. And so, I was qualified for the job and I was hired. I've evolved and been promoted and grown in that role, but I'm still in that same capacity in that organization. And so having the MSW was a gift because, although I was on the clinical track, because of the way that the MSW is framed and the way social work trains their students as professionals, I was able and qualified for a role with research and evaluation as well and that's kind of what I've fallen in love with now, which is also kind of what motivated me to pursue my PhD was just that love for the academic side of things, the research and evaluation side of things. I get a little bit of policy work, in my job and so that more macro social work, practice that I really only was able to dabble in a little bit during my MSW. And then the ways it shaped the way I see myself, I would say the School of Social Work at Baylor, just the professors at the Garland School really encourage students to not only learn the material, but to engage with the material, in a personal way as well. So not just thinking through what does the code of ethics say about this or what does NASW have to say about this, but really also like, how does this intersect with who you are, with your own experiences, with your, you know, beliefs and if there's conflict, you know, let's, you know, let's talk through that. Let's rumble with that, right? But also, if this is congruent with your, your beliefs and who you are and you're working through that, then how do you then apply this, like in a professional setting, right? And so, I think just growing in, in the confidence that, social work really did align with, with my values already and then kind of just growing in that. But then also, this idea that when you finish, when you can be so certain that when you finish your MSW or your PhD, whatever, you're getting BSW, even probably, too, at the Garland School, like, you are going to be well equipped, you're going to be well trained, you're going to be well educated, and you have a really supportive team in your corner. And so even if you need something when you're in your first job or after you've graduated, you're looking for jobs or you're in your third job or something, you can always go back to. And I think I learned that as well. It's like, I'm not alone in this social, work journey, and career journey. But I do have a really supportive team of folks from the Garland School who are still to this day in my corner.
Lillie Walker
Yeah, that's great. That's great to hear as someone that's about to graduate. Yeah, all right, so now to kind of shift gears and get a little bit more like, specific about what your program looks like, would you mind describing what a typical week looks like for you in the PhD program?
Courtney Haworth
Yes. So, the PhD program at the Garland School is designed for people who are working full time. And so, it is different from other PhD programs in that you do not have to quit your job to become a full time PhD student with the Garland School. So, they specifically have crafted this program with folks who are already working full time in mind as the primary audience. So, there are of course exceptions that some folks still are full time students and aren't working separately. Some people work part time; some people have more than one job. It just is, very, it's variable in that, but it's designed for people who are working full time. And so, the typical week, we have classes every Monday and Thursday night from 6:00 to 9:00pm Central Time. And so those are live, synchronous classes on Zoom. So, every week, you get to wherever you're having your class and you turn on your camera and you're there, present with your cohort and your professor, two days a week, and you have one class on Monday and a separate class on Thursdays. The rest of the week, looks like, you know, working my job and taking care of my kids and
00:15:00
Courtney Haworth
you know, being a partner to my husband. In addition to that, you know, reading for my assignments, completing assignments, writing papers. You know, once you get a little bit further into the program, you are also then separately working on your dissertation proposal or you're working on your perspectus, which is like a mini proposal where you kind of talk through your ideas. And so, there are pieces that you're kind of working on individually that are separate from the work you're doing for the classes. But I would say in a typical week, the classes are the big part and then it's fitting in the time in between life and work to get your readings done, to get your assignments done, and to be prepared to come to class and discuss with your colleagues.
Lillie Walker
Yeah, so I'm hearing like, it's like you're able to work through it with the schedule, but it is like busy and trying to fit in time just kind of.
Courtney Haworth
Yes.
Lillie Walker
Yeah. So, in that, how would you say you balance your coursework with your life outside of school?
Courtney Haworth
Oh gosh, I would say sometimes I don't balance it very well. But now that we've made it through coursework, it feels you know, hindsight's 20/20, so I would say most of the time, I was able to balance it because I have an incredibly supportive husband who took on bedtimes with our two preschool age children the last two and a half years. Every Monday and Thursday, he did solo bedtimes with them while I was in class and dinners with them on his own as well. And so that is largely how I was able to get through the program. But I would say also the professors were a big part of how we were able to balance it because they are so keenly aware that we are more than just students in this program, right? We are obviously aspiring social work PhD students, of course, but also, we are human beings with jobs and life outside of school. The professors will willingness to like not only to acknowledge that but take that into consideration when they're thinking about things like our assignments and our due dates and things like that is truly invaluable. And then I mean the other way is my cohort, shout out to C6, Cohort 6. But just the camaraderie and the friendship that we have as a cohort was really one way to also do that. You know, we would hop on Zoom calls outside of class and be like okay, what’s due this week, or how's everyone getting this done? Or you know, has anyone started this assignment yet and what do we need to think about? Or how much time did it take you? And things like that really do go a long way because then you know kind of how much time to block out for that assignment or if it's not going to be actually as big of a chunk of time as you thought or something like that. So yeah, I would say I did not always feel like I was thriving in the balance department. But it is manageable and it's doable.
Lillie Walker
Yeah, I mean I feel like that's probably pretty standard for most PhD students, from what I've heard. I've not had that experience, but from what I've heard, I've heard it's pretty very overwhelming and very intensive. But it sounds like you've been able to find a strong support system, and community in that. So that's great. What motivates your research and how does it connect to your vision for the field?
Courtney Haworth
Yeah, so my research, which I mentioned was in the kind of the intersection of faith, politics and food insecurity. And largely how I was first brought into that research was through my work at the Baylor Collaborative on Hunger and Poverty. You know, that is the work that I'm in is anti-hunger work – is trying to maximize participation in federal nutrition programs, to hear from the experiences of folks who are living with hunger, living with food insecurity, and trying to figure out how to increase access to food for these people. So, that was kind of the how I got into food insecurity research was just through kind of that natural introduction through my work at the Hunger Collaborative. But then with, with the intersection of the faith and the politics, so, what motivates me to do this research is my faith. I practice a Christian faith, and I believe firmly that the life and teachings of Christ, call people who are people of Christian faith to care about these issues, of things like hunger and poverty. And not just to care, but to something, right? You think of Jesus words in Matthew 25. you know, when did, when did we see
00:20:00
Courtney Haworth
you hungry? And he's like what you did for the least of these or what you didn't do for the least of these, you did or did not do for me, right? I was hungry, and you fed me or, or you didn't, right? So, there's kind of these two options: you do it or you, you don't. And I think that's what really motivates me on a personal level to care about alleviating hunger and improving food security is a drive directly from the life and teachings of Christ because of my faith. But also motivates me to keep going in this work is because it's becoming more and more of a prevalent and prominent issue in our country. We just came out of the largest government shutdown where SNAP benefits were paused. SNAP is the single most effective federal nutrition program for improving food security. And so, when those benefits are paused, folks don't know what to do or where to go to access food that they usually can access with, with those little bit of benefits they get each month. And so with that being, you know, major headlines and you've got, you've got churches, some of which saying it's not our job, it's the government's job and the government saying not our job, it's someone else's job, right? And you've got this tension. And so, I've really been motivated to kind of explore you know, why it is that Christians especially or people of faith in general, would not be more compelled, or feel more obligated to care about, about this issue or care about their neighbors who are hungry. And then also thinking through just the political climate we are living through and currently in and thinking through. Well, even if someone's Christian faith compels them, does their religious affiliation kind of override what their faith tradition would have them do? And is that why there's a disconnect between caring about feeding your neighbor versus letting someone quote, unquote pull themselves up by their bootstraps, right? And so that's kind of what motivated me initially and then kind of keeps me in the work is it's really relevant and it's at this point in time becoming more and more prominent and something has to, has to be done. So, hoping my research can fill some of those gaps.
Lillie Walker
Yeah, and that's really inspiring to hear kind of your personal relationship and then your ability to like study and move forward in this it's, it's very much needed work. So, I'm inspired to hear your story. Thanks for sharing about that. Okay. And then kind of to wrap up this, this section, why do you think getting a PhD is, is necessary for your work to continue?
Courtney Haworth
Yeah, that's a great question. So, I would say so in social work, if you, I mean in social work, an MSW is a terminal degree. So, you are, you know can be a fully, full like, operating social worker in the profession, with an MSW. And if you are going to pursue education further than that within the field of social work, you have two options: A DSW Doctor of Social Work and a PhD. At Baylor, the PhD is the option that we have. There are other schools and other programs that offer DSWs, as well as PhDs. But for me, finding myself in a research role and job after graduation, the PhD was more of the natural fit for me. I'm not in clinical practice; I'm not in direct service practice right now. So, the PhD was the more natural fit. Ultimately, I, I mean I would love to contribute to the social work profession through education, through teaching, through being a professor. So, we'll see, I kind of say, what the job market looks like when I'm ready to graduate. But ultimately, a PhD was part of that process too in getting to start my own research as an academic professional and getting to learn the skills of not only research which you do gain through the PhD program, and not only things like statistics and qualitative research, but specifically with the PhD at Baylor, you also get teaching experience. So, I'm wrapping up my first class as a professor this semester. You also get experience learning some of the administrative side of things, you get some of the experience learning the integration of faith and practice side of things, and the ethics of the profession within academia. So, the PhD was a more natural fit for me and my eventual career goals, hopefully, and just already that I was in research and kind of on that more macro side of social work practice already.
Lillie Walker
Yeah, that's great. All right, just to kind of close it up. Thanks for sharing your story and what's kind of brought you to the PhD and giving our listeners some more information on that. If you had to give a piece of advice to someone that's considering just doctoral education in general, what would that be?
Courtney Haworth
Yeah, so, doctoral education in general, I would say find people who are already doing it or who have recently graduated and talk with them. The cohort above us was C5, and some of those folks really helped answer a lot of questions when I was thinking about applying for the program, was thinking about if I should even do a PhD or what I should do with myself, kind of like after the MSW program. And so, finding people who have, have recently gone through a program or have recently pursued doctoral education, I think is really helpful in addition to, you know, talking to the program directors or the professors that you've, you've known or connected with. But really getting that experience of some of the recent grads I think is really helpful in deciding if it's the right decision for you.
Lillie Walker
Yeah, that's great advice. And then more specifically, what advice would you give to someone that's considering Baylor, the Garland School, a PhD at the Garland School? What advice would you give?
Courtney Haworth
Yeah, I, would say if, if you are someone who, the integration of faith and social work practice, if that is something that is, it resonates with you, if that's something that's important to you, if that's something you're curious about and learning more about – I mean, it is part of ethical social work practice is to integrate the holistic person in all levels of the social profession. So, from individuals to families to groups to communities, to larger systems, thinking about it holistically, right? And, you know, spirituality is part of the holistic being. And so, if that's something that's interesting to you or resonates with you or that you are passionate about, I think, exploring the Garland School is a wise, a wise choice. I have friends in MSW programs at other schools, and they don't have that same experience. They have to learn it once they're already in the field or in the profession. If anyone's interested in the field of social work, I say do it. It’s one of my big claims to fame that I've convinced several of my friends to pursue their MSWs after they've started careers and they're shifting into second careers. I really think more people should pursue social work. I think it's a very broad profession with really transferable skills and social workers are doing really good work that matters. I think more people should pursue the profession.
Lillie Walker
Yes. All right, well, Courtney, thank you so much for your time and your great insight and knowledge and perspective on the PhD program. Specifically, thank you to our listeners, for listening. I hope this was able to give you some information to help you if you're maybe throwing around the idea of a PhD at the Garland School. Courtney's insights highlight how doctoral preparation shapes both scholars and the profession of itself. Join us again for more conversations about the many ways social workers lead and serve.
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